J2EE 1.4 SDK and Sun Java System Application Server Platform Edition 8

Java Live Transcripts Index

Guests: Tony Ng and Paul Ko
Moderator: Edward Ort (MDR-EdO)

This is a moderated forum.

MDR-EdO: Welcome to today's Java Live chat on the Java 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition (J2EE) 1.4 SDK and Sun Java System Application Server Platform Edition 8. Our guests today are two key members of the Sun Java System Application Server 8 and J2EE 1.4 SDK team: senior architect Tony Ng, and product line manager Paul Ko. They're ready to answer your questions. But before we do that, perhaps Tony and Paul can highlight what's new and exciting in the J2EE 1.4 SDK and Application Server PE 8.

Paul Ko: For J2EE 1.4 SDK and AppServer PE 8, we wanted to create a product to address 3 themes:

1. A product with a great out-of-box experience for developers
2. A product to help novice J2EE users learn various technologies in J2EE
3. A product that would also fulfill the needs of expert developers

Tony Ng: Some of the new features include:

• JavaServer Faces 1.0
• Full J2EE 1.4 support
• Administration console with log viewer
• Improved on startup, deployment time and memory footprint
• Integrations with various IDEs, including NetBeans, Java Studio Creator and Enterprise

Webster: I'm considering migrating to App Server 8 from WebSphere. Is there anything I need to be careful about when I migrate? Does the migration tool do a full migration, or do I have to handle some of the migration manually?

Paul Ko: The migration tool will do the majority (greater than 90%) of the migration work. It will convert the deployment descriptors and source code to be Sun-specific. It will also highlight the proprietary WebSphere code that cannot be migrated. In this case, you need to do some manual migration.

fkieviet: If my understanding is correct, we can download the 8 PE binaries. Those partners who have access to the source have access to the DE (developers edition). Question: how much difference is there between PE and DE?

Tony Ng: Actually, J2EE licensees have access to the source of the J2EE reference implementation. The developer's edition is the release that we did back in November. We now have the FCS release (released in March).

fkieviet: Are you saying that J2EE licensees will get the source of the March FCS release?

Paul Ko: Let me answer this for Tony. J2EE licensees do get the source of the reference implementation -- which is slightly different from the March FCS release. The reference implementation does not include an installer or a high-performance JMS bus. With that said, 95% of the code is the same.

fkieviet: How can I specify connector parameters for an embedded RAR? I'm talking about parameters such as pool size and JNDI name of the connection factory.

Paul Ko: Connector parameters are configured within the Admin GUI. Or you can manually change the parameters in the domain.xml (configuration file).

fkieviet: Yes, but that only works for global RARs, not for embedded RARs (those that are inside an EAR).

Tony Ng: I will answer this for Paul. In PE, the Connector connection pools and connection factories are always defined at the domain level. You can refer to an embedded connector using the format <ear name>#<module url> in the resource-adapter-name for the connection pool.

osiris_rma: I was interested in finding out if there is a way to log out from the server (once authenticated), and if I can make the user type the password again, if the first time was incorrect. It seems that this can be done with programmatic login as described in the dev guide. Is this the only way possible?

Tony Ng: I believe Servlet 2.4 offers an API that allows you to log out.

Guest: Some of my users login within a windows active directory domain, but others are outside this domain. The users also need to be able to change their password. Is it OK to make a database domain to store user names and passwords? And if I implement one, should I make only one connection to the database and serialize all access to it? And I was wondering how can the container know which login context goes with which realm?

Tony Ng: We support plugging custom realms into the app server. You can implement a custom realm which talks to your database. The app server would then use your custom realm for authentication.

fkieviet: Thanks. That clarifies things.

Webster: Can you give us an early glimpse into what to expect in J2EE 1.5?

Paul Ko: The overall theme for J2EE 1.5 is ease of development. This is the result of feedback given to us by developers, licensees, and partners. There is a perception that J2EE is too difficult to develop against. As such, J2EE 1.5 will address these issues. EJB 3.0 is the biggest specification change in J2EE 1.5. EJB 3.0 will include more of the metatag technology. It also includes JAXB 2.0, JAX-RPC 2.0, JSP 2.1, JSF 1.2, and the JSTL Maintenance Release.

fkieviet: Thanks. The thing is that I have the binary download and found some bugs; I've been debugging these but I suspect that they are already fixed in the March FCS (I don't see them as "open" in the Bug Database). So I can hardly wait until we get the March FCS source (with slight modifications as you pointed out).

Paul Ko: You can get the source code to the reference implementation under the Sun Community Source License.

Andi: I can't select embedded rars (in an ear, as opposed to a global rar) for creating a connector connection pool in the admin gui. What is the intention of how embedded rars can be managed from the admin gui? How do I give them a JNDI name and reference them from the MDB to receive inbound messages?

Tony Ng: We will look into this. For now, you might need to use the asadmin CLI to create the connection pool for embedded resource adapters.

osiris_rma: I have some questions about J2EE PE security.

Tony Ng: What would you like to know specifically?

osiris_rma: I wondered if there is a way to logout from the server (once authenticated), and if I can make the user type the password again, if the first time was incorrect. It seems that this can be done with programmatic login as described in the dev guide. Is this the only way possible?

Paul Ko: What do you mean by "logout" from the server? Are you talking logging out from your application?

osiris_rma: I want to remove the current subject from and authenticate as another user.

Tony Ng: You will need to use the programmatic login interface.

fkieviet: I noticed I cannot turn off transaction logging; I did not find an open bug in the bug database about this issue. Do you happen to know if this is a known problem and if it is fixed in the upcoming release?

Tony Ng: Currently, we always perform transaction logging to ensure transaction integrity for distributed transactions.

fkieviet: What is the time frame for J2EE 1.5?

Paul Ko: About 18 months. We are filing the JSR right now. We think the beta for J2EE 1.5 would be available mid-2005.

farzCol: Why do people prefer to use Jboss and BEA server instead of Sun's? I think Sun's is easier to learn. Maybe people get 'visual basic' vibe from it?

Paul Ko: This has a lot to do with our product perception. Sun's AppServer 6.x product line experienced some customer satisfaction issues and as a result tarnished our reputation. With our AppServer 7.x product line, we started with a clean code base and rearchitected the whole thing. We hope that with the AppServer 8.x product line, we can gain the market share from competitors like Jboss and BEA by providing an easy-to-use product that addresses customer needs.

glauber: Any idea when J2SE 1.5 will be production?

Paul Ko: Dec. 2004.

Andi: Is there a way to specify a JNDI name in the descriptors for each connection factory when using multiple connection types (now allowed in JCA 1.5) in a single RA? I can specify only one JNDI name in the (optional) sun-ra.xml.

Tony Ng: In 8.0 PE, sun-ra.xml is not required anymore. Instead, you can define multiple connection factories/pools in domain.xml. In the connection pool element, one can specify the connection-definition-name to refer to different connection types.

fkieviet: Paul: about rearchitecting in version 7: how much different is Sun ONE 8 from the J2EE 1.3 reference implementation?

Paul Ko: AppServer 7 is significantly different from the J2EE 1.3 reference implementation. We made a lot of implementation improvements to make sure AppServer 7 is a "production quality" product. With AppServer 8, we built on top of AppServer 7, but included rev'd some of the components to meet J2EE 1.4 spec.

fkieviet: Question about class loaders: is it correct that for an EAR, there is one EJB classloader shared by all EJBs and RARs in that EAR (and is the parent of all web class loaders)?

Tony Ng: Yes, that's correct. And we have a separate classloader for standalone resource adapters

Andi: If I register a custom MBean (JMX) in the MBeanServer, am I allowed to address it via the MEJB? Does it, or are there any plans to, support JSR-160 (standardized JMX remote access)?

Tony Ng: Yes, you should be able to query your MBean through the MEJB interface. However, you will probably need to grant some permissions to allow your application to register a MBean. In the next version of the App Server (8.1), we plan to support JSR-160 and expose a set of MBeans from the application server for management use.

fkieviet: How well does the Sun Java System Application Server 8 stack up against WebLogic and WebSphere?

Paul Ko: What is available right now is AppServer Platform Edition (PE) 8. This product is designed for developers and departmental deployments. It is also FREE. So the competition of PE 8 is JBoss, Tomcat, and other open source AppServers. From a developer productivity and ease-of-use perspective, I think PE 8 is much better than WebSphere and is probably at par with WebLogic. Our AppServer for enterprise-level deployment will come out in Q4 2004. Standard Edition and Enterprise Edition will cost $2K and $10K. SE will have much better performance and horizontal scalability than PE. SE will also have centralized administration and deployment. EE will add on top of SE feature with High Availability and cluster management. We expect our Web Services performance to continue its leadership position. We are working on our EJB performance to match WebLogic and WebSphere.

fkieviet: When is the 8.1 release scheduled?

Tony Ng: It's currently targeted for Q4 2004.

farzCol: I'm trying to convince a friend of mine that we could use a Sun server for production, but he is closed-minded for Jboss. What kind of argument could I use?

Paul Ko: I think you could use the following arguments:

• Sun's App Server has better EJB performance than JBoss
• Sun's App Server is fully supported by Sun's service organization
• Sun's App Server integrates well with other Sun products -- such as identity server, portal server, directory server, etc.
• Sun's App Server helps you expand your deployment capability without worrying too much about integration

fkieviet: Will the SunONE 8 SE and EE in fact be release 8.1?

Paul Ko: Yes. The actual name of the product would be Sun Java System Application Server SE 8 2004Q4 and EE 8 2004Q4.

Webster: In looking at the J2EE 1.4 SDK forums I learned that (1) there are supposed to be samples bundled with App Server PE 8 that show the creation of custom realms, and (2) the samples didn't get included in the release, and will not be available before the next release. If that's the case, is there anything available (anywhere) that you can point me to that gives realm examples?

Tony Ng: You can refer to the documentation of custom realm.

Webster: I'm assuming that Sun's App Server 8 is not the only implementation of J2EE 1.4. What other implementations are there?

Paul Ko: AppServer PE 8 is the first J2EE 1.4 implementation. Other implementations are available from IBM (developer preview), Oracle (developer preview) and Tmax. For more info, look at the Java 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition 1.4 Kickoff Event 2004 Press Kit and the J2EE Compatibility Reference page on java.sun.com.

Webster: Are there going to be sessions on these topics (J2EE 1.4 SDK/App Server 8) at the 2004 JavaOne Conference?

Tony Ng: Yes, we are going to have a technical session and a BOF on J2EE 1.4 SDK. We will give an overview of the SDK and give live demos of the app server. See Java 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition (J2EE) Software Development Kit (J2EE 1.4 SDK) Overview.

fkieviet: I assume the SE source will be not be released through the community program; the community source base will remain at what has been shipped already?

Tony Ng: At this point, we do not plan to release the app server standard edition source through the community program.

Vijay: If you say - "Sun's App Server has better performance than JBoss" - Can you tell me how much best? Like 10%? Or do we have any benchmark comparisons?

Paul Ko: We have done some internal benchmarks against JBoss. Since JBoss does not publish any external benchmark results, the only way to compare is to do it ourselves. I cannot give you the specifics on performance.

Andi: Is it now not allowed anymore to 'directly' use JMS connection factories for an MDB (as we described in the SunONE 7)? Does the external JMS provider now always have to be integrated via an RA for inbound?

Tony Ng: Yes, we strongly recommend JMS providers to implement a resource adapter. That way, they would be able to integrate with our app server as well as any J2EE 1.4 compatible app servers.

Webster: Is Application Server 8 integrated into Sun's development package, Java Studio Enterprise?

Paul Ko: Java Studio Enterprise includes AppServer 7. For AppServer 8, there are several tools that would use it as the default J2EE container. The first is Java Studio Creator (formerly project Rave). Second is NetBeans 3.6 and going forward - we will offer a co-bundle. Lastly, Java Studio Enterprise will eventually include AppServer 8.

Andi: One earlier discussion I would like to clarify: are you saying that the "disable-distributed-transaction-logging" property of the transaction manager (as described in the developer's guide) will not turn off transaction logging?

Tony Ng: Yes, that should work. We don't recommend it though because it would affect transaction integrity.

fkieviet: I noticed the IQ and RAR currently don't support concurrent processing; any plans to re-add that feature?

Paul Ko: Our JMS provider (Sun Java System Message Queue) in AppServer PE 8 supports concurrent message delivery and AppServer PE 8 can handle concurrent MDB processing. Please take a look at the docs for SJS MQ 3.5 SP1.

Vijay: How about the IDE's integration? Can I integrate it with Eclipse?

Paul Ko: We are working with Genuitec on a myEclipse integration. It's on their public roadmap (mid-May release).

MDR-EdO: Well we've quickly come to the end of our session. I'd like to thank everyone who participated today. I thought we had a nice range of questions. I'd also like to thank our guests, Tony and Paul, for their answers.

Tony Ng: Thanks everyone! If you have further questions, please post them at the J2EE SDK forum.

Paul Ko: Thanks to all participants and Edward Ort for arranging this chat session. If you have any suggestions, questions, or feedback regarding the product -or- would like to arrange a Voice of Customer (VOC) meeting with our team, please feel free to drop me an email at paul.ko@sun.com. Thanks very much!

Paul Ko: For those of you coming to JavaOne, please come to the J2EE 1.4 SDK Community Discussion BOF. We would like to meet our developers face to face. Thanks.

MDR-EdO: Last moderator (me) signing off. The forum is now unmoderated.