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Guests: Gary Little and Geoff Baysinger MDR-EdO: Welcome to today's Java Live chat on the Sun Java Desktop System (JDS). As I'm sure many of you know, the Java Desktop System is a comprehensive, secure, simple-to-use, Linux-based desktop solution that includes the GNOME desktop, StarOffice, Mozilla, Evolution mail and calendar client, and J2SE. Recently Sun announced the availability of Release 2, which adds support for system management among other things. Our guests today are Java Desktop System marketing manager Gary Little and Marketing Technical Specialist Geoff Baysinger (Susan Jefferies could not join us today). They're ready to answer your questions about the Java Desktop System. But before we start, perhaps our guests can give us a little more background about what's new in the Java Desktop System. Geoff Baysinger: So the biggest new features in Java Desktop System release 2 would be the new management features including Sun Control Station 2.1 for provisioning of software packages and images, Java Desktop Configuration manager for managing remote client desktop profiles and Remote Desktop Takeover using the VNC protocol so that helpdesk personnel can see what the end user is seeing on their screen and help with various issues. Gary Little: Just a note that Java Desktop System Release 2 is now shipping. We've also extended the promo price of $50 for another 6 months. SuperJavaMan: When will the Solaris version of JDS be released? Gary Little: The Solaris version of JDS will be released towards the end of the year. This will be part of our Release 3. It will support both Solaris SPARC and x86 platforms. (Of course, today, many of the components of JDS are already available for Solaris -- GNOME, Mozilla, StarOffice, Java, etc.) marymaryquitecontrary: Does VPN work with Java Desktop System? And when is Looking Glass going to be rolled into the product? Geoff Baysinger: It would depend on what type of VPN you mean, there are many different types. For instance, I use a Cisco VPN client to access Sun internal networks. The real question is, does your VPN vendor support Linux (and in the future Solaris)? As for Looking Glass, there has not been any announcement (internally or externally) about when it will roll into the Java Desktop System product line. Java Desktop System targets the low end of the hardware spectrum to be compatible in many environments, and the hardware requirements for Looking Glass do not currently fit with the Java Desktop System target. unixroot: When will Active Directory (AD) integration be available? Geoff Baysinger: There are a number of ways that AD integration can be handled. Currently the Configuration Manager can already use AD as an LDAP data store. Additionally, Java Desktop clients can authenticate against AD using Kerberos authentication. Further plans for AD integration are being discussed, but nothing final has been announced. One thing that will help will be the inclusion of Samba 3 in Java Desktop System release 3 towards the end of this year. genunix: Hi Guys. I understand Sun's Java Enterprise System/Java Desktop System model, but why go and reinvent the wheel on the desktop? Seems to me it would have been simpler to let the customer choose the base OS they are comfortable with (SuSE/Red Hat/Solaris/Windows) and then just include Sun's 'Value Add' components on top of that. Just like you guys did with the V60x - SunONE promo? The Linux desktop market is so fragmented already, why contribute to the mess? Gary Little: For the markets we are going after initially, we felt it was best to provide a complete solution to customers -- thus we wanted to combine Linux OS with the desktop. SuperJavaMan: I recently saw a screenshot of JDS that sported modified GNOME-style icons with brighter colors. Are they incorporated in JDS v2? Geoff Baysinger: I haven't seen GNOME icons in a screenshot, so I'm not sure what you're referring to, but Java Desktop System has always had a custom set of icons and the icons in release 2 are essentially the same as in Java Desktop System 2003. Chater: Will there be something like Active Directory? Geoff Baysinger: Java Desktop Configuration Manager does a similar role to parts of Active Directory and will continue to be enhanced to perform functions that are expected by Windows administrators. See also a previous answer about AD integration. lvirden: If one buys a Sparc Solaris machine and doesn't buy JDS, then will they still have a graphical interface? In other words, what unique features does JDS bring to Solaris? Gary Little: As you probably know, Solaris currently includes CDE (Common Desktop Environment) as well as an old version of GNOME (2.0). In the future, all desktop innovation will be delivered through JDS -- so, for example, you will get StarOffice, Evolution, etc. groenveld: Why was VNC chosen over Sun's SunRay Server protocol for Remote Desktop Takeover? Geoff Baysinger: SunRay protocol and VNC protocol have very different uses. SunRay server is a fairly heavy application that offers a number of features not needed for part-time remote control. VNC already had GNOME integration as well. We haven't forgotten SunRay, there will be multiple Java Desktop System options on SunRay terminals towards the end of this year. Guest: About Evolution (in JDS R2), does it support Novell Ximian Connector for Exchange? Gary Little: Now that Novell has open sourced the connector, we are actively working on it to ensure it works well with R2. We also expect to include it with R3. If all goes well, we should be able to provide it as an R2 update this summer. Chater: Is the latest version GNOME 2.6 included? Gary Little: GNOME 2.6 will be part of Release 3. Release 2 includes GNOME 2.2. groenveld: JDS GNOME is based on 2.2, Solaris GNOME on 2.0.x, will Sun be supporting multiple GNOME versions on Solaris? Gary Little: When you install JDS on Solaris (in Release 3), the version of GNOME you have previously installed will be replaced with the more recent version. tunla: To administer their on password file and passwords. Geoff Baysinger: The first part of this question was submitted earlier ... it pertains to setting up a centralized password/authentication scenario ... Answer: The "best" solution is one that fits your network, so I don't want to claim one. If you are architecting from scratch I would recommend looking into using an LDAP server like the Sun Java System Directory or OpenLDAP. There are many other options such as Kerberos. Linux supports Pluggable Authentication Modules (PAM) which give a wide range of network authentication capabilities. Guest: Why such a lag in getting JDS on Solaris? GNOME was already there. Gary Little: It's really just a resource allocation issue. We wanted to get a Linux JDS release out quickly, so the Solaris release was affected. Now that we've done that, we're making a concerted effort to get new releases out for all platforms more or less simultaneously. (i.e., starting with Release 3). genunix: Does Sun plan to offer any training and certification for JDS? I might know a little about SuSE or Solaris (in the future), but aside from RTFM, it'd be nice to have a clear certification training plan to show my boss. Geoff Baysinger: Sun currently offers online web-based training. Since Java Desktop System is a layer of applications that sit on top of an OE like SuSE Linux or Sun Solaris, creating a full-blown OE certification does not make sense. I do expect that we will have desktop administrator certification programs in the future as demand requires. For now the best way to self-train is to use the web-based training. capaz: So, will JDS be delivered with Solaris, or will they be separate products? Gary Little: Our plan is to deliver JDS with Solaris, certainly with the "one after 9". For S9, we will likely release separately, since no more updates are planned after this summer. SuperJavaMan: Will there be more bundled applications in future versions going beyond just office productivity/business needs? Gary Little: It's very possible. We're always on the lookout for software to enhance the platform. Chater: GNOME lacks many controls over system. It is developed very slowly. Will Sun contribute to the development of GNOME or go with a new Desktop later? Gary Little: Sun has been actively working with the GNOME community for over 4 years! We have made significant contributions to the project already, including the areas of documentation, localization, accessibility, overall quality, etc. Guest: Is JDS shifting to Solaris, or will Sun support multiple flavors of JDS (on SuSE, Solaris, Red Hat?) Gary Little: Our plan is to develop the Solaris and Linux (SuSE based) versions in parallel. lvirden: Is there a way for one to determine what Linux applications are included in the current Sun Java Desktop System distribution? And if a favorite Linux program is missing, is there a way for a user to submit a request for it to be added to a future release? Gary Little: Sorry, we do not have a complete list of all contents posted anywhere, although you might get some good information by reading the posted User Guide. SuperJavaMan: Will the hardware support for JDS/Solaris be improved from past versions (on x86)? Geoff Baysinger: Hardware support for SPARC and x86 Solaris is always being worked on. x86 has recently ramped up quite a bit. Until manufacturers begin supporting Linux or Solaris, there will always be a lag between hardware releases and OE drivers. SuperJavaMan: Will Sun be offering their own x86 hardware with JDS? Gary Little: This is possible, but I have nothing to announce today. lvirden: What are some of the benefits a Linux user should consider when comparing JDS to other Linux distributions? Geoff Baysinger: Primary benefits are going to be a higher level of integration between desktop applications (GNOME, StarOffice, Mozilla) as well as the Java platform. In addition, Java Desktop System places a lot of resources in globalization and localization of the entire desktop. Accessibility is also a key feature of the desktop and is being worked on constantly. Also of key importance is that Java Desktop System multi-user installs come with Sun Control Station and Java Desktop Configuration manager at no additional cost. marymaryquitecontrary: So is JDS getting rolled into the Software Express for Solaris program? Gary Little: We are trying to formalize this right now. unixroot: What are the plans for JDS to support Firefox and Thunderbird? And why do these products require separate builds from 'standard' Linux? Gary Little: Our focus at the moment is still on Mozilla. Release 3 will feature Mozilla 1.7. SuperJavaMan: Will we see StarOffice be more integrated with Mozilla in regards to plugins which would allow people to view SO documents, spreadsheets, presentations, etc...? Geoff Baysinger: I do not know of plans for StarOffice Mozilla plugins (it would be a great OpenOffice community project :) but web viewability is one of the key reasons why StarOffice exports to HTML, PDF and Flash in addition to using an XML-based native file format. tunla: Have you looked into the possibility of bundling the Linux Citrix ICA client with JDS? Gary Little: We've certainly looked at many possible ways to enhance Windows interoperability. Citrix is certainly an option for customers -- don't know if bundling is viable, though. Tom D: Is there a update available to update from JDS R1 to JDS R2, and will this retain all OS settings? Geoff Baysinger: Yes, please see the Upgrade FAQ. groenveld: Sun previously announced partnerships with Adobe, Real, and Macromedia; are these companies still on board? In other words, will I be able to watch the Real streams and read the PDF proxy statements from the SUNW annual meeting with tools provided in the JDS stack? Geoff Baysinger: Yes, they are all still partners and we continue to include Real and PDF viewers with the product. Guest: Does JDS R2 Evolution support Novel Ximian Connector for Exchange? Or just Sun ONE Accounts? Geoff Baysinger: Currently it only supports Sun ONE accounts for networked calendars. We are working to iron out stability bugs and internationalize the newly Open Sourced Ximian connector and will release it as a patch as soon as it is of the quality required. SuperJavaMan: What is Sun's attitude towards the consumer market in relation to JDS? Gary Little: Our primary focus is certainly the enterprise market and our support options are better suited to the enterprise. That being said, we are working with some OEMs that do cater to the consumer market (e.g., Microtel). SuperJavaMan: Is Sun going to integrate the look and feel between its GNOME UI and Java UI to provide better consistency overall with the user interface? Geoff Baysinger: Java has been working towards this for awhile and has a native look and feel extension not only for GNOME but also for Windows and other platforms. Further improvements are in the works but much is already there. SuperJavaMan: Will Sun offer a software download site for JDS? I know that there is Java.com, but it seems that a lot of the Java software out there is mainly for Windows (with .exe installer files, which are useless). Gary Little: It is something we are considering. lvirden: So JDS won't interact with the current Solaris calendar servers? Gary Little: JDS will interact with the Java Enterprise System calendar server. Tom D: Is there an HCL posted for JDS, and is new hardware support ever added via the online update? Geoff Baysinger: Since Java Desktop System release 2 is based on SuSE Linux Desktop 1.0, we rely on SuSE's Hardware database for HCL at this time. This is one of the reasons it makes sense to OEM a Linux distribution rather than building from scratch. angelr: Well...I was thinking more on keeping Solaris 9 as my O/S but running the JDS instead of CDE...possible? Gary Little: Yes, you will be able to do that with Release 3. Or you could download GNOME 2 today and get a similar effect. JusinVU: Will customers that purchased the JDS R1 have the option to switch from the Linux version to Solaris x86 when it comes out? And will there be a charge? Gary Little: No, this is not planned. However, we are keeping the price very low so you can enjoy both releases. SuperJavaMan: Will Sun be offering an addition to StarOffice with something like Microsoft's Visio? Gary Little: It's possible, though we think most customers would want Visio interoperability. That might be very difficult -- I believe the file formats are proprietary. SuperJavaMan: Visio does offer an open XML format. OmniGroup is using it for its Diagram app for Mac OS X. Gary Little: Good information, thanks. Not my area of expertise, wondering if there is an open source Visio-like application already out there that understands this XML format. lvirden: You write "a higher level of integration" - so the versions of GNOME/StarOffice/Mozilla are different than those that the other Linux distributions use? Geoff Baysinger: The versions of these applications include 2 things that differentiate ... first are the Configuration Manager agents (not part of the apps themselves but a layer between the apps and preferences so no binary differences) that allow Configuration Manager to remotely set preferences. The other differences are Sun-generated patches to fix things like localization, bugs, etc. Sun contributes these patches back to the projects, but it takes time to get those patches accepted (and some are never accepted because the projects don't see a need for them). Source code is available to meet Open Source requirements if you want to inspect any differences online. lvirden: But JDS will be a part of Solaris, you said before. So there won't be a need for a Solaris x86 user to buy JDS separately, right? They will get it as a part of the Solaris after 9 upgrade? Gary Little: An S9 release would have to be separate because no more formal updates are planned. Guest: I would like to know if there will be Java APIs to work directly with the underlying Linux kernel, I/O ports (like USB), etc. Geoff Baysinger: Java relies on the host OS for most hardware functions. For instance, to use a USB hard drive, you would mount the drive and then Java would access it in that manner. I'm not aware of significant work being done to make Java more low-level, though I'm not a Java specialist and can't say for sure. JusinVU: Why such a huge focus on the JDS/Linux combo, as compared to JDS/Solaris/x86? It looks to me like Sun left the Solaris/GNOME for Linux/JDS. Geoff Baysinger: Java Desktop will be released on Solaris in the next release (release 3). We have not left it behind, market demand for a Linux Desktop was greater so that was addressed first, but Solaris has always been planned to have a Java Desktop release and future releases will have equivalent features launch at the same time for both platforms. unixroot: There is an open source project underway to 'decode' the Visio file format. But I doubt we'll see the fruits of those labors anytime soon. It is apparently a huge undertaking. Perhaps with the recent Sun/Microsoft group hug, Sun could bring some leverage to the table...? ;-) Gary Little: Agree on the "huge undertaking" comment. As for hugging MS,... maybe! Guest: Compatibility with Active Directory/PDC logins onto domain? Geoff Baysinger: We already have a prototype configuration that talks about using Kerberos to authenticate against Active Directory that will be posted on Sun.com once we have the kinks worked out. More integration will also be possible when Samba 3 is incorporated in to Java Desktop System release 3. SuperJavaMan: Will we see better support from the likes of Adobe, Macromedia and Real for their components? Gary Little: Real and Macromedia have been very supportive so far -- we've been working very closely with them to enhance their players. (MM just shipped Flash 7 for Linux a couple of weeks ago, largely because we ported most of it.) Adobe hasn't been as proactive yet, but we're working with them to help change that. SuperJavaMan: Will Sun be working with Real to get an up-to-date Real Player (Helix Player) app out for JDS, or will you be pushing for your own media player based around Java? Geoff Baysinger: We're continually working with Real and have plans to support newer versions of their player as time goes on. Sun will also be working on the Java Media Player, but not to the exclusivity of Real formats. Chater: So, when shall we have R3? Any date? Geoff Baysinger: Release 3 (Solaris, SunRay, improved Linux client) is planned for the end of this calendar year. SuperJavaMan: With Ximian pushing Evolution to a Mono codebase, will Sun be shifting to another similar application; say OSAF's Chandler? Gary Little: We're looking at Project Glow to provide a more portable solution for personal information management. This will be a great help in filling a gap identified by StarOffice customers on Windows. In Release 3 we expect to deliver a cross-platform calendar client based on Glow, for example. SuperJavaMan: So the Java Media Player will support standard formats like MPEG? Geoff Baysinger: It already plays MPEG files but perhaps not all related codecs. Chater: If we purchase R2 now, shall we pay for R3 upgrade? Geoff Baysinger: Not if Release 3 comes out within the year, which it is absolutely planned on. MDR-EdO: Well we've quickly come to the end of the session. I'd like to thank everyone who participated. I thought we had an excellent set of questions. And, of course, I'd especially like to thank our guests Gary and Geoff for their answers. Geoff Baysinger: Thanks for attending :) Gary Little: Bye all, thanks for the provocative questions. Got some good feedback which could well influence future releases! MDR-EdO: Last moderator (me) signing off. The forum is now unmoderated. |
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